homer_simpson Publish time 23-6-2007 12:43 PM

kapal terbang purba

This object (shown in sketch) was found in 1898 in a tomb at            Saqquara, Egypt and was later dated as having been created near 200            BCE. As airplanes were unknown in the days when it was found, it was            thrown into a box marked "wooden bird model" and then            stored in the basement of the Cairo museum.


It            was rediscovered by Dr. Khalil Messiha, who studied models made by            ancients. The "discovery" was considered so important by            the Egyptian government that a special committee of leading            scientists was established to study the object.

As a result of their            findings, a special exhibit was set up in the center hall of the            Cairo museum, with the little model as its centerpiece. It was even labelled as a model airplane.


To elucidate the reasons for the decision of the committee,            almost unprecedented in the field of archeology, let's consider some            aspects of the model. The model has the exact proportions of a very            advanced form of "pusher-glider" that is still having            "some bugs ironed out". This type of glider will stay in            the air almost by itself—even a very small engine will keep it            going at low speeds, as low as 45 to 65 mph., while it can carry an            enormous payload. This ability is dependent on the curious shape of            wings and their proportions. The tipping of wings downward, a reversedihedral            wing as it is called, is the feature behind this capability. A            similar type of curving wings are implemented on the Concorde            airplane, giving the plane a maximum lift without detracting from            its speed.
In that context, it seems rather incredible that someone, more            than 2,000 years ago, for any reason, devised a model of a flying            device with such advanced features, requiring quite extensive            knowledge of aerodynamics. There were no such things as airplanes in            these times, we are told by archeologists and historians. But this            case seems to be an exception, living in the midst of the rather            unimaginative and rigid paradigm of contemporary science. It is also            necessary to point out that Egyptians are known to have nearly            always made scale-models of projects and objects which they planned            to create or build.

[ Last edited byhomer_simpson at 23-6-2007 12:45 PM ]

homer_simpson Publish time 23-6-2007 12:47 PM

Precolombian Airplane Models

Is the concept of an airplane limited to Egypt? That doesn't seem to be the case. Gold trinkets were found in an area covering Central America and coastal areas of South America, estimated to belong to a period between 500 and 800 CE, but since they are made from gold, accurate dating is impossible and based essentially on stratigraphy which may be deceptive. However, we can safely say that these gold objects are more than 1000 years old.


As seen from the pictures, the shape of the sample object is rather ambiguous. The archaeologists labelled these objects as zoomorphic, meaning, animal shaped objects. The question is, what animal do they represent? When we compare these with other objects from the same cultures depicting animals, a curious facet of the comparison would be obvious: the other objects are recognizable, rendered usually with a great accuracy and attention to realistic detail.

There are several types of animals which fly—birds, insects, and several mammals, such as bats and some gliders, for instance flying squirrels, oppossums, and then there are some lizards; there are also some fish which for brief periods glide through the air. There are water animals which seem to fly through the water, such as rays, skates and some selachians. But how does the depicted object compare with these choices? All its features taken into a consideration, we have no match. Seen from above, the object obviously has no fish features, but seems to show rather explicitly mechanistic ones.

The structures just in front of the tail are strongly reminiscent of elevons (a combination of ailerons and elevators) with a slight forward curve, but they are attached to the fuselage, rather than the wings. In any case, they look more like airplane parts than like the claspers of a fish. If the two prominent spirals on the wings are supposed to be a stylized version of the eyes of a ray, then what are the two globular objects positioned on the headsupposed to represent? To complicate the identification even more, the spirals on the wings have their copies positioned on the nose of the object, in the opposite direction. When the object is viewed in profile, the didsimilarity to anything from the animal kingdom is even more pronounced. If the zoomorphic explanation is supposed to hold, then why did the artist cut the head off almost three quarters from the body? And why is the nose is practically rectangular and the cut tilted forward, with eyes positioned at either side, when fish eyes are usually more near the center of bodyline and far forward on the head?


homer_simpson Publish time 23-6-2007 12:48 PM

What we can make of the semicircular grooves on the inside of the cut? What is it supposed to be—fishwise? And what about the scoop, forward and under the cut? It is a scoop, not just a ridge for drilling a hole through to place the object on a necklace chain. Then there is another rectangular feature, positioned further back at the approximate center of gravity under the fuselage. The wings when viewed from the side are perfetly horizontal, but when seen from the front, they curve slightly downward. The elevators, which are right behind the wings, are positioned on a slightly higher horizontal level and are square-ended, thus a definite geometric shape. Above them is another rectangular shape, with a relief which may be reminiscent of knobs. The tail is equally intriguing. No fish has only a single, upright and perpendicular flange. But this tail fin has an exact shape of finson modern airplanes. There are also some markings on the tail which are hard to identify, but it does not seem to be anything related to animals, either.

When all the features are taken into an account, the object does not look like a representation of any known animal at all, but does look astonishingly like an airplane. The photos and enlarged outline of the object has been submitted for an analysis to several people from the field of aerodynamics. One of them was Arthur Young, a designer of Bell helicopters and other aircraft. His analysis confirmed that the object contains many features which would fit the airplane hypothesis, but there were several ones which would not fit that scenario. Wings do seem to be in the wrong place—they should be further forward so that their 1/4-chord coincides with the center of gravity. The nose is not like anything on airplanes, as well. So, while the object is suggesting an airplane, some features would not seem to support this hypothesis.

homer_simpson Publish time 23-6-2007 12:49 PM


But let's entertain several possibilities. If we imagine that the separation after the windshield is not a cockpit and that the pilot and the cargo were located somewhere in the main fuselage body, then we can envision the nose as something else. Let's assume that the nose is actually a jet. If the machine needs to slow down, the jet flow directed against the path of flight would accomplish just that. But how to redirect the jet into the opposite direction? If we envision the nose as a movable part of the plane, turning around the point located where the nose and fuselage meet, thus pivoting the nose downward to tuck it under the fuselage, that would enable the desired effect. What's more, it will re-adjust the center of gravity and the wings would be just in the right place for a high powered flight. Another problem, though, will appear and that is the drag which would be created by the back of the nose now positioned in front. But that can be attributed to artistic license. That seems to be the case, because several other similar planesfeature the back part of the nose tilted more forward, so the angle of the back of the nose when pivoted is more corresponding to aerodynamic principles.

All things considered, the object seems to represent a convertible type of craft, with two possible configurations—one for ascent when the nose is facing backwards, and the other for descent with the nose facing forward. One unsolved item remains—the spirals on the both wings and the nose. According to Amerindian iconography, these spirals have discernable meaning—they represent ascending and descending, depending on whether they are right-oriented or left-oriented, respectively. As the spirals are not only on wings but also on the nose, the meaning is fairly obvious—the wings and the nose (as much) were the features which were directly involved in ascent and descent.

Text and Illustrations

homer_simpson Publish time 23-6-2007 12:50 PM

Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology

Source: The Anti-Gravity Handbook (Lost Science)
by D. Hatcher Childress

The Vaimanika Sastra (or Vymaanika-Shaastra) has eight chapters with diagrams, describing three types of aircraft, including apparatuses that could neither catch on fire nor break. It also mentions 31 essential parts of these vehicles and 16 materials from which they are constructed, which absorb light and heat; for which reason they were considered suitable for the construction of Vimanas. This document has been translated into English and is available by writing the publisher: VYMAANIDASHAASTRA AERONAUTICS by Maharishi Bharadwaaja, translated into English and edited, printed and published by Mr. G. R. Josyer, Mysore, India, 1979 (sorry, no street address). Mr. Josyer is the director of the International Academy of Sanskrit Investigation located in Mysore.


There seems to be no doubt that Vimanas were powered by some sort of "anti-gravity." Vimanas took off vertically, and were capable of hovering in the sky, like a modern helicopter or dirigible. Bharadvajy the Wise refers to no less than 70 authorities and 10 experts of air travel in antiquity. These sources are now lost.

Vimanas were kept in a Vimana Griha, a kind of hanger, and were sometimes said to be propelled by a yellowish-white liquid, and sometimes by some sort of mercury compound, though writers seem confused in this matter. It is most likely that the later writers on Vimanas, wrote as observers and from earlier texts, and were understandably confused on the principle of their propulsion. The "yellowish-white liquid" sounds suspiciously like gasoline, and perhaps Vimanas had a number of different propulsion sources, including combustion engines and even "pulse-jet" engines. It is interesting to note, that the Nazis developed the first practical pulse-jet engines for their V-8 rocket "buzz bombs." Hitler and the Nazi staff were exceptionally interested in ancient India and Tibet and sent expeditions to both these places yearly, starting in the 30's, in order to gather esoteric evidence that they did so, and perhaps it was from these people that the Nazis gained some of their scientific information!

prototaip Publish time 23-6-2007 07:00 PM

Reply #6 aizverus's post

harap2 aku dapat cari formula dan teknik fizik untuk mencipta vimana ni.....:o

bayangkan jika kita berjaya mencipta vimana dan sekaligus berjaya mengatasi kehebatan teknologi angkasa lepas dari US serta Russia...bukankah kita boleh menjadi bangsa yang sangat digeruni?:C

GRINDSAKHTANIC Publish time 23-6-2007 07:27 PM

vimana nih apa??
boleh tak jelaskan secara ringkas dan terperinci tentang apa yang dinyatakan diatas tuh??aku tak paham bahasa inggeris la..

cz Publish time 24-6-2007 01:41 AM

Originally posted by GRINDSAKHTANIC at 23-6-2007 07:27 PM
vimana nih apa??
boleh tak jelaskan secara ringkas dan terperinci tentang apa yang dinyatakan diatas tuh??aku tak paham bahasa inggeris la..

From wikipedia:

References to flying machines are commonplace in ancient Indian texts,which even describe their use in warfare. Physical evidence of suchcraft has not been found. Apart from being able to fly within theEarth's atmosphere, vimānas were also said to be able to travel intospace and travel submerged under water. Descriptions in the Vedas and later Indian literature detail vimānas of various shapes and sizes....

Some modern UFO enthusiasts have pointed to the Vimana as evidencefor advanced technological civilizations in the distant past, or assupport for the ancient astronaut theory. Others have linked the flying machines to the legend of the Nine Unknown Men.
Alexander the Great purportedly gave a description of "dozens of silver disk-like objects" entering and leaving the Jaxartes Riverin 337 BC. Alexander, so the story goes, then became obsessed with thecraft and spent many hours in a primitive diving bell searching forthem. (Source: History Channel "Unidentified Submarine Objects")


Mengikut kepercayaan Hindu, Vimana ialah kapal pengangkut udara dari zaman dahulu kala yg canggih. Dikatakan (bukan sahaja oleh Hindu, tetapi bangsa/kepercayaan lain) yg wujudnya ancient astronaut (angkasawan/pelawat zaman dahulu) yg melawat bumi (pelbagai nama diberikan kpd mereka spt UFO, alien, dewa dll). Mereka dikatakan sebagai penyumbang terbesar dalam bentuk pertolongan kpd ketamadunan dunia (dikatakan sebagai 'sahabat lama' manusia) seperti lemuria, atlantis dan telah 'menghadiahkan' kenderaan terbang yg dipanggil vimana kpd Hindu (atau mungkin juga kpd bangsa yg lain).

Pendapat aku lak:
Sekiranya vimana wujud dan kenapa dikatakan boleh menumpaskan musuh terkuat di dunia ini kerana keupayaan vimana itu sendiri yg mungkin dapat terbang secara anti graviti, 0-100km/h dalam 1 saat (sekelip mata), maneuvering-free type vehicle (boleh membuat pusingan/belokan tajam) dll. Kalau dilihat secara logiknya, zaman skrg mmg tidak ada kenderaan terbang yg sebegitu rupa (dalam category fighter plane) dan mmg kalau ikut logik boleh menumpaskan even USA.

Kenapa tak ada bukti fizikal wujudnya mende ni?
Berkemungkinan dihapus/dilupus/disembunyikan oleh sahabat lama ni atas kerana:

"Manusia suka melakukan kerosakan di muka bumi Allah".

Boleh juga dikaitkan dgn Nazca Line di Peru yg dikatakan tempat 'landing' @ depoh kenderaan terbang kepunyaan ancient astronaut.

johnconan Publish time 24-6-2007 01:51 PM

perkara menarik mengenai epik ramayana mahabrata adalah ada disebut tentang kewujudan kerajaan dipanggil ashvin atau Atlantis...:C

satu lagi penerangan tepat proses letupan bom atom dan kesan terdedah pada radiasi bom atom. Epik ni rasanya diterjemah sekitar awal abad ke 20. Lebih kurang beberapa tahun sebelum bom atom pertama kali digunakan masa zaman moden ni...:C

vimana ni kononnya masa alexander the great nak takluk India, tentera dia telah diserang oleh objek terbang cam vimana. Tapi mujur mende ni x guna bom atom...

cz Publish time 25-6-2007 03:18 AM

thread ni saling berkaitan gak dgn thread ni (dari segi teknologi zaman dulu):


silvermuse Publish time 25-6-2007 09:22 AM

Reply #7 prototaip's post

kalo xsilap aku la.aku dgr dari sumber yg bole dipercayai.Malaysia kawan baik ngan Rusia dari zaman Dr M lagi.dats y kita antara negara yg selamat dari ancaman USA walaupn kita xberapa kuat.tapi kalo pasal teknologi angkasa ni,aku xtau la dorg kongsi ngan Malaysia atau tidak.:C

ulartedung Publish time 26-6-2007 12:45 AM

kalau orang zaman dulu dah ada teknologi canggih macam ni takde
ke archeologi jumpa macam chip simpan maklumat ke tentang teknologi zaman dulu.mungkin amerika dah jumpa benda tu kut,tu yg canggih
sangat senjata amerika tu.aku ada dengar tentang teknologi stealth tu amerika dapat maklumat tempat lain bukan dicipta oleh saintis amerika ,betul ke tidak tak tau le.:lol: :lol:

alphawolf Publish time 26-6-2007 09:24 AM

Reply #13 ulartedung's post

Teknologi stealth dah diguna tentera Jerman masa WW2...mereka letak lapik getah pada periskop dan snorkel kapalselam mereka menjelang hujung perang.

Teknologi stealth bukan ghaibkan pesawat tapi sekadar mengurangkan radar cross section menerusi konsep faceting serta penggunaanbahan kalis radar...bahan karbon komposit yang mana2ada sekarang ni...

Lain la korang percaya semua teknologi canggih ni alien punya lepas tu patent dia MIB pegang...

silvermuse Publish time 26-6-2007 09:55 AM

Reply #14 alphawolf's post

Sama yg aku penah baca.kalo nak kata ghaibkan pesawat tu agak pelik la melainkan David Corfefield jd pilot dia:lol: tapi yg aku tau teknologi stealth tu hanya kurangkan kesan radar je.pesawat yg sama digunakan masa US serang Iraq masa perang teluk dulu:o

pisang69 Publish time 26-6-2007 12:08 PM

camner plak projek us masa ww2 yg bleh ilangkan kapal perang tu ker? betulker diorg ada teknologi tu?:o

johnconan Publish time 26-6-2007 12:48 PM

Originally posted by pisang69 at 26-6-2007 12:08 PM
camner plak projek us masa ww2 yg bleh ilangkan kapal perang tu ker? betulker diorg ada teknologi tu?:o projek pelangi atau lebih dikenali sebagai Phildelphia Project. Slh seorang saintis projek ni adalah Nikola Tesla...

alphawolf Publish time 26-6-2007 12:53 PM

Reply #16 pisang69's post

Tu auta semata-mata....

octavianus_83 Publish time 26-6-2007 01:57 PM

semenjak dari zaman purba dah ade kapal terbang ekk??????:o

alphawolf Publish time 26-6-2007 03:13 PM

Entah2 benda tu toys aje...macam kita la. Ada model Gundam, Space Battleship Yamato Battlestar Galactica...etc etc

Jangan sampai kita jadi Thermians dalam filem Galaxy Quest udah le....benda khayalan disangka sebagai 'historical recordings'!

sayangidaku Publish time 26-6-2007 03:21 PM

Reply #20 alphawolf's post

ahaha... aah, citer galaxy quest tu.;Ptp atleast thermians tu mampu buat mnde yg kita reka2.

pisang69 Publish time 26-6-2007 03:55 PM

Reply #18 alphawolf's post

ooo...auta erk....:L

king_kenny Publish time 27-6-2007 12:39 PM

mane firaun pakai airbus, airbus

TheBoss Publish time 27-6-2007 01:17 PM

Originally posted by alphawolf at 26-6-2007 03:13 PM
Entah2 benda tu toys aje...macam kita la. Ada model Gundam, Space Battleship Yamato Battlestar Galactica...etc etc

Jangan sampai kita jadi Thermians dalam filem Galaxy Quest udah le....benda k ...

Mungkin Benar....:oMungkin Juga Tidak...:funk:sebab ia masih menjadi misteri....tapi kalau nak dikatakan mereka tak moden pada kita...macam mana lak diorang buat piramid?:o

ulartedung Publish time 27-6-2007 06:59 PM

piramid tu satu bata dia berapa tan berat dia,bukan macam bata
sekarang,dia guna batu padu tu,nak angkat pun kena guna kren je baru boleh angkat,tapi zaman dulu takde kren,tu yg heran tu camner
diaorang buat :lol: :lol:

abu_nawas Publish time 28-6-2007 07:53 AM

Reply #25 ulartedung's post

angkat pakai bomoh kot.....:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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